Submitted by Tresler on Wed, 2007-03-28 22:58.
Posting in response to The Mad Pigeon's open topic of the week.
In general I've observed that most people writing about global warming like to focus on one of a few topics, usually the Science, the Economics, or the Politics of the situation. Frequently this results in going back and forth in a debate-style format trying to prove one side or the other on facts and figures.
"X number of scientists have found Y facts so we need to change carbon output."
or
"This is a Liberal scheme that doesn't take practicality into account"
or
"It's all well and good to say we need to change carbon output, but it would wreck the American economy."
The three above are perhaps the most Vanilla examples I could post. The arguments range from the most influential powerpoint presentation ever to people who claim that there is no such thing as Global Warming.
What I don't get is why anybody is so threatened by this phenomenon that they feel they need to speak out against it.
Economically, we would see several things. First, and probably chief on my list of Good Things, would be a boom in employment to help with the conversion of all our cars, power plants, manufacturing, etc over to carbon neutral systems. If we are smart we can keep those jobs in the US.
Second, our dependence on foreign oil would decrease. Again, if we are smart we turn to domestic energy sources to fuel our transportation. We have the capability.
Thirdly, we investigate sustainable power production - solar, wind, water, wave. Sure it costs money to do the conversion, but won't we pat ourselves on the back when 30, 40, 80 years from now, we're still generating power in a FREE (except for maintanence and upgrades) method. Right, NO INPUT COSTS - how is this economically bad?
Politically, ummm, not much would happen that isn't a direct result from economic effects that I can see, and I'm happy to be corrected if someone can think of something.
From that line up, this sounds like something we want to do even if there were no global warming.
What's all the hub-bub, Bub?
Well, the hub-bub is that someone needs to eat the initial conversion costs. The corporations aren't crazy about this as they're standard pattern of 'pass expense along to the customer' couldn't immediately* absorb such a hit. I say immediately, because eventually it could be passed on to the consumers of several generations of automobiles, and price per megawatt-hour increases. It still amounts to a hit to the companies.
Well the companies should have seen this coming. Rudolph Diesel invented the diesel engine as well as a solar engine - over a century ago.
In 1893 he published a paper titled, “Theory and Design of a Rational Thermal Engine to Replace the Steam Engine and the Combustion Engines Known Today,” in which he described an engine that would produce less waste heat and use fuel more efficiently. The German patent office issued Patent No. 67207 for a “Combustion Power Engine,” the machine we know as the diesel engine.
Now, the diesel engine, at that time, ran more efficiently than the internal combustion engine and could run off off domestically produced vegetable oil. So, anyone offering me the, "Oh, we're so surprised and unprepared," argument should know that as off now, anyone in the automotive or power industry has had at least 114 years to clean up their act and play well with the environment and the country. UPDATE: I reference diesel here as just the oldest alternative, there are MANY inexpensive, domestic, clean(er) alternatives other than diesel - it just so happens we have a fleet of diesel trucks though - instant infrastructure)
So, if no one stands to lose but the corporations, and these same corporations clearly have opted to use blatantly non-domestic fuel sources, why are we protecting them?
All that is valid whether Global Warming is happening or not. This (reducing carbon) is all still a Good Idea. Global Warming just makes it an Unavoidable Change.
Pomo Apocalypse
Someone's got to get the ball rolling. I share (some of) your optimism about possible effects of global climate change, but that doesn't mean it's not hugely threatening to humanity, as well as short-term corporate profits. The reality is that radical shifts in weather patterns are going to kill a lot of people, both directly (New Orleans) and in much bigger numbers through famine and the exacerbation of existing resource/social problems. This won't exterminate humanity, but the sooner we start getting smarter the better for everyone.
In a just and sane world, we would be able to unite around issues like this, and it's starting to happen. I just worry we'll keep bickering until the shit really starts to hit the fan, at which point it will be too late for a lot of people (and corporations) to keep their lives.
That being said, it's important to beware the Apocalyptic thinking that this issue can bring on. Doomsaying gets you nowhere.
Indeed...
Note how I avoided the scientific oh-my-god-we're-all-gonna-die battle in this whole thing. The entire point is that if we have a radical shift of manufacturing and technology - even if there is no global warming (which I obviously believe there is), there are really no long term poor effects. Whereas if we have a radical shift of manufacturing and technology and there is indeed global warming - we're just saved billions of dollars and lives (in that order :).
My point is, that acting now is a win-win scenario. Not acting now is a win-lose scenario. My money's on the sure thing.
reply about the global warming issue
The only reason no one is making the steps you guys have been speaking about is because it takes a lot of money and enrgy to make the necessary changes but also the big big reason is because then these huge corporations will lose all their rmoney. If we make solar powered houses, how will electric companies make any money? Big corporations rule the world. Please, even politicians get huge contributions from some of these corporations. So, why would they push for change, they also would lose money and power from such a shift. I agree with most of the points you made T. However, I do not see that making changes this late in the game can shift a chnage in gloabl warming. The damage is done and will continue to worsen. Of course, I hope that is not definite but the outlook is not too good already.
Check this out: http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/04/05/319/
Pretty much
Thanks for your response, and yes, you are pretty much right.
In a recent (oct?) issue of National Geographic Magazine, sustainability write Bill McKibben addressed the entire issue in the present tense. Implicitly making a point that global warming has already happened and is no longer some specter of the future. All the projections now are about how to mitigate the damage done, not about how to prevent damage from occurring. It's really how we need to frame things now. This is an emergency, not a convenience.
Second, we have a new Northwest passage that nations are fighting over trading rights for:
http://thetyee.ca/Views/2006/01/30/DefendNorthwestPassage/
Whee!
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